Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Mapping => Completed Maps => Topic started by: Hobo on February 13, 2006, 01:56:03 AM
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This is what I've been working on for quite some time. Take a look see, let me know what you think please.
This map uses dsm walls to seal of the tunnels depending on how many people are playing. Highest tunnels open with 8 total and closes with 6. Lower tunnel is partly blocked with 4 or less and opens with 6 total players.
The r_speeds are kindof high in some spots but... I've been working on it to get them down some. I've had many set backs while making this map mostly because of trying to do too much. For example, I wanted to use 12 sided tunnels, but after 2 months of nothing but trouble I gave up.
Still I think it's worth looking at, here's the link and some sshots.
http://rapidshare.de/files/13158761/draw_b1.zip.html
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WOW! im really impressed, very eleborated, nice lighting, perhaps a little dark at some places.
in the water you can't really go out on one position, that you should fix.
otherwise there's nothing to beef about. really great job i think
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Nice, Looks great
cant wait to own some newbies on it.!
-Termin8oR
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Thank you for taking a look at it and for the nice comments.
Pimp you're right... I didn't test the map on actual server, using the alpha 15 built-in server options I was able to get out of the water all the time, even the bots could get out. I'm assuming you're talking about the middle area between the 2 bases. Making the angle less should take care of that.
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yeh that will help, i tested it on build 14, and there its absolutely hard to get out..
(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2402/sshot0029up.th.jpg) (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sshot0029up.jpg)
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Total deep water is unapealing...you should maybe make the water deep in some places, but have terrain where you can stand...maybe a way to traverse the water quickly having only to actually swim a short way if you take the right path...kinda subtle like.
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I think you have to have the edge of the water at least 4 units above the water level in order to have it jump out correctly in the old versions. With build15 and up, this has been fixed.
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As mentioned earlier, the lighting is too dark. From your screenshots, I can tell you've got the gamma cranked WAY up. The stars should look like white dots, not ugly splotches of lossy compression. Everything else looks pretty washed out, too. Go through the configuration and properly set your gamma, then rework your lighting brightness. It looks like you've completely disabled reflected light, actually. The colored spotlight on the flag looks a bit more like a lighting artifact than something intentional. You might want to do something else for that.
Overall, it's pretty cool, though. Lots of unique detail and whatnot, and it's nice to see a map with DSM. I think you may create more work for yourself than you need to on a lot of this stuff. It looks like a lot of textures are about 1 unit off, which probably means you've fallen victim to the "1 unit off" bug for the textures in BSP trying to manually align everything from the 3d view. It works a lot better if you align by numbers, or create a brush in a position so that the texture is aligned, lock the texture (alt-l) then move it. You should never have to sit and manually try to align lots of textures, except maybe in the case of odd angles where it's just easier to use the mouse. Even then, I typically calculate the exact rotation a texture needs and punch it in.
The middle area is pretty rough with reflective water enabled.
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S8N: Two reasons for the deep water in this map. First I figured if you jumped down in real life and didn't hit water you'd die for sure, I know comparing this to real life isn't realistic in itself, but that's one reason for the water depth. The other reason is that being down there probably means you jumped/fell down there or went down the chute. The water is meant as a penalty for going that way. It really doesn't take very long to get accross the water. In fact once the getting out of the water is fixed you can jump to the bridge support and most of the way accross the water. If you go down the chute from the top, you can "fly" most of the way accross the water on that side. But since you took the time to reply, I'll look at what you suggested and it may be good to do something along the stair side or such.
Jitspoe: I'll just fix the angle of the bank, so it's more like the rest of them. I was both being lazy and trying to save brush counts down by trying to keep it within the wall width. ;(
I thought I was using alpha 15 pretty much "out of the box" but obviously it is too light. When I checked the water problem with 14 and it was much darker, actually looked alot better to me. But I only was checking the water problem so I didn't look at the rest of it yet. I'll do some tweaking to my gamma.
You're right on the money about my texture alignment. I try not to map using unit size 1 but find myself using 2 alot for whatever reason. And I do most of it by visual as you said. But I do start out making the crates and such as you do. Part of the problem with this map was I accidentally highlighted the whole map and moved it without locking all the textures, then didn't realize it until it was too late. Plus copy pasting and rotating to get the 2nd side altered most of those.
Rotating the brushes wasn't really the problem on this map, the problem was that the bridge and chest lid are drawn in the down poition but start in the up position so the brushes had to be adjusted accordingly. I still need to rotate the end brushes on the chest top. And haven't stopped to look at the bridge sides lately so I'll do that also.
I don't even know how to turn off reflective light. If you would clue me in I'll look at it to see if it's off. Does the washed out look have anything to do with increasing the patch size to 64? I get a "too many patches error if I use 32". And the lightscale is set to 1. But I did grab the textures out of b15 a couple of days ago.
Also the main doors by the bridge need a distance set. :) (Thought I'd post it before someone else did.)
I'll spend some time on the problems this week hopefully
.Thank you for the help.
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The washed out look is just from the gamma. It looks better with a proper gamma setting, but it's too dark in many areas. You can adjust the reflected light using the -bounce parameter. In the second screenshot you posted -- the tunnel on the right -- where there's no direct light it's black, but maybe it's just because the light source is so dim. I would think that whole hallway would have SOME light in it because of how much would be reflected off of the walls. I'd probably just make a custom .bat file to scale up the brightness -- maybe 1.5 or higher, and then add some more lights in the areas that are still too dark -- some of the tunnels and the chute, for example.
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Alrighty, here's beta 2. Fixed the middle water fubar, aligned textures, missed one on the bottom rock wall over the door, so I know that needs to be done. But I think the rest of textures are aligned now. Added a light in the top tunnels, changed the flag spot a bit, looks a little better. Ummm.... anyway here it is, let me know what you see wrong. Thank you.
http://rapidshare.de/files/14211671/draw_b2.zip.html
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The chute and the area around the metal stairs with the landing still need more light. Also, don't know if this was intentional or not, but the "slippery green slime" is brown in one section, at the end of the hallway.
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How much light do you need to go down a chute? ??? I double the lights in the chutes... but I still think you shouldn't be hanging around in there. ;)
Added lights over the metal stairs, changed the brown at the end of the tunnels, it was meant to be a transition piece but I suppose it's better to make it the same. I previouly added a shallow side in the water, probably not what s8n was thinking of, but it's there. Since nothing else was mentioned, here's beta 3.
http://rapidshare.de/files/14791801/draw_b3.zip.html
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It's hard to go up the cutes, though, when you can't see. I don't know if you intended them to be used that way, but sincethey're right in the center, it seems kind of natural. The lighting overall still seems pretty dark in a lot of areas. You should probably just scale up the brightness in your compile options.
I need to get a beta maps server set up so people can do play testing.
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Yes it would be nice to test this map and the others. I guess my monitor is still brighter than yours.. it is a night time map you know. :) If I increase the scale I'm worried about the moonlight being too bright. I already think the moonlight is too bright, so I'll probably go through and increase all the lights manually (could decrease moonlight but I had problems getting it to work and don't want to break it.).
I haven't been able to go up the chute to the second floor for quite some time but I'm sure it's still possible. I've never made it to the 3rd floor.
Anyway that gives me something to do for the next few months. Thanks for the help.
Right now I'm using -scale 1.5 and -bounce 12 but get a 8==12 error so I'd guess -bounce tops out at 8?
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Maybe. After 4 or 5 it's hard to tell much difference anyway. I'd use midnight for comparison -- it's a night map, but it seems almost twice as bright as draw. I'd up -scale to 2, and then make other adjustments necessary.
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Here, I've attached some screenshots of the areas that definitely need more lighting. The map as a whole needs more light, though, too, otherwise it encourages people to crank their gamma way up which makes the whole game look like crap.
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Here's another one (the tunnel entrance is too dark). Keep in mind that when people see your map, most of them aren't going to think, "Oh, it's a night map, so it's supposed to be hard to see. That's cool." They're going to think, "I can't see anything. How do I turn my brightness up?" or, "This map sucks. I can't see squat."
Compare those shots to midnight, "the original night time map", and note how it is considerably brighter, yet still maintains the night theme (though the area around the top base entrance is a bit dark, but I didn't really know any better at the time). Also, a number of the areas that are too dark in draw are indoors. Just because it's dark outside doesn't mean it has to be dark inside, too.
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Thank you for taking the time to look it over and post the screenshots.
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Added/increased some light, extended the chute a bit, couple of other minor changes. L 8) 8)k it over...
http://rapidshare.de/files/22195010/draw_b4.zip.html
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Added to the beta server: paintball2://216.127.68.86:27919
Edit: Lighting in the chute looks better. I think you need to scale the lighting up on the whole map overall, though. It's a strain to see for me, and I know some people have even darker monitors than I do. I'd probably double the light brightness.
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Doubled:
http://rapidshare.de/files/22334691/draw_b5.zip.html
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Ok, that looks a lot better in the areas with light fixtures. Keep that and tone down the "sun" light, and it should be good. I'd also change the sun color, too. Night lighting is generally blue, not yellow. Just don't oversaturate it. The spotlights still look funky to me.
We need to see if we can organize a fairly large group to test out the gameplay. Maybe tomorrow night at 10EDT?
In the meantime, I've put it up in rotation on the beta maps server.
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Just happened to see your last post at 10PM.. I'm on the server. :)
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Crap, sorry, I completely forgot.
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Thanks for putting this on the beta map server Jitspoe.
I've played it a bit on there, but haven't been on when there was enough people to open the halls. Seems most of the action takes place in the water areas, that may change with more people. I'm gonna add a ladder in each base by the spawn area flag which should help confuse the flag campers. I fixed a couple of brushes and textures also, and I got rid of the spot lights. Also since it took forever to get the sky working right I refuse to change the light value for it. :) But I have changed the color and went through and changed every light value for the rest of the lights. The new beta will be ready pretty soon. Thanks again.
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Seems it would have been simpler to halve the sky lighting and leave everything else. Now that the textures are adjusted for proper reflection, I think I need to increase the default light values on everything in the bsp package.
I was hoping there would be a little more interest in the beta server.
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It would seem that way...
However! Here is beta 6:
http://rapidshare.de/files/24325542/draw_b6.zip.html
I wouldn't want to annoy anyone :)
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Please don't use rapidshare to host stuff, its an annoying site to download from, just click Reply and then attach it to your post.
The layout of the map looks awesome to me.
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! the link wont let me download it! says the file was deleted
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The links work fine...
Here's another annoying link:
http://www.badongo.com/file/969278
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Is the filename supposed to be draw183.bsp?
Edit: Added to beta rotation anyway.
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No, I forgot to change it before I zipped it. I didn't notice it until after it had been posted overnight so I figured it really didn't matter. In case anyone is wondering where 183 came from, it's the 183rd saved version during the build. I don't have much trouble with bsp anymore but I don't like having to rebuild stuff. :) Routez final was 243.
But any way it was suppose to be draw_b6.
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The frozen server was running draw184. Is that a new version or did somebody just name it wrong?
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it looks amazing and it reminds me of a conqueror's bad fur day level for x-box
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yea it's a newer version. main differences I remember is the bottom middle bunkers got changed from sand to... steel I think. Some texture clean up was done also, can't remember what else...
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wow, I'm impressed. I never had downloaded the map completely (only had a .tmp), so today was the first time I took a look at it.
I like your map a lot, as it is just a new style of maps, featuring some unique stuff as the bridge and that closing chest :). I also liked way you are routing the players through the map - if you want to defend mid, you will have a hard time, as you never know which way your opponent is coming from. The base itself also looks great to me. It has several points of penetration, so that a good team should have quite simple access into the base. But then the one thing that bugs me is the flag placement. Due to the proximity of the 2nd to the 1st flag, it will probably quite easy to defend them both with only 1 defensive player. Without the ladder on the side when you enter through the hidden path it would even be worse, but I guess I'd like to see another way coming to the 2nd flag. Great job overall tho, so I hope you can finish your map soon.
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Hobo can you put up the most recent version of the map and is it completed or near completion? Thanks in advance :)
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anyone got screen shots??
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Thanks b00nlander, it's descriptions like that which help the mapmaker see things which sometimes go unnoticed. The spawn area flag placement started as a temporary spot and just stuck. The reason for 2 flags is to encourage someone to spend more time in the base to get both flags. Depending on the defender, it actually isn't that hard to get both flags even with someone camping the flags. Once you have the first flag jumping from the first flag to the second is fast. I believe the spawn area flag is easier to defend actually, because of the areas to camp. (yes I said camp, it's part of the game) In some cases you could grab either of the flags and cap just one. The spawn area flag has ladders, jumps and double jumps off crates to get to it, plus multiple doorways and walls for protection for the grabber. I still haven't tested the map with a large number of people, it'd be nice to see how the gameplay really is.
Piccasso: Here's the 184 build:
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here's a ss:
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nice, that pbcup shot had me wigging out :P
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Are you ready for this to go on the servers yet Hobo? This is an awesome work of art and a hell of a lot of fun!
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haha... yea I had the wrong one at first :P
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Picasso: although it hasn't been officially released, I haven't worked on it for months and probably won't do any more to it unless something is fubar on it or someone comes up with a suggestion which is a must do. So as far as I'm concerned it's fine for pub play... just wish it had been tested with some larger groups first.
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Well maybe if I add it to the maplist and get it played a bit, we could get you some feedback on it through this thread :)
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that'd be great, thanks
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thats a awsome map good job ;) :D
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I'd rename it to draw.bsp before putting it on pub servers. I'll put it up on dpball.com.
Edit: A couple minor things:
- The message still says "Beta 6". That should be removed for the final version.
- The lights under the railing in the red base are purple (by the ladder to the second flag).
- Map still seems a bit dark. I tried relighting it with -scale 2, but it didn't seem much brighter (maybe you're already doing this?)
Edit2: http://dpball.com/files/maps/draw.bsp
Fixed the message and made the lights brighter ( -scale 2.8 ). I couldn't do anything about the railing light colors, though, but I doubt anybody will notice. The lighting isn't really that noticeably different. The only thing is that the yellow lights in the low center area aren't as yellow because of the .wal files I'm using.
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very nice map
but i cant find a way to
(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4358/sshot389nn0.jpg)
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...complete your sentences?
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It's a DSM map. When more people join the server, new paths open up.
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draw.bsp has been uploaded to the servers and is now on the server maplist
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i don't think the gameplay will be too good because the main portion of the map will be played in the water and well, people suck in water
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Routez is another good one that hobo made. You might consider adding that to rotation, too: http://dpball.com/files/maps/routez.bsp
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Hmm... I wish you hadn't renamed it to draw yet.
Like you said it still has the beta 6 in the title, but I guess that's how it will be.
JOE: I agree about the water being the main area of battle, as I've said before, the water is a penalty for being down there. You can backtrack and go another route if needed. I'd like to see how the gameplay is though.
Dirty_Taco:Both sides should be the same, if not then corrections probably should be made. The DSM walls are in the "slimy" tunnels. There are 2 different # of player DSM walls. So unless it's a trick jump or something it should be the same for both.
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If you want to make some fixes, I'll just upload the new one. It won't hurt anything. Clients will just re-download it.
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since when are hobbo and krewzer the same person? wow. where have i been?
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Gah Joesephine yer slow!! LOL
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So I've noticed an issue with this map -- not sure if it's a map bug or a bug I need to fix. In DM mode, you can spawn in these little rooms with a button that opens the window. It's not possible to get out (or it's not obvious how to get out). It looks like there's some kind of door on the side, but I couldn't get it to open.
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It's a DSM map. When more people join the server, new paths open up.
Is this what you meant? I havent tested it personally.. but yeah.
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It was intended to have those dm spawns in there. You should be able to shoot that side wall to get in and out. I've noticed the entities stop working after a few times being used or after a minute or two of game time. I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but the spawns could be removed or relocated I suppose... I haven't mapped in years...
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Yeah, it seems those doors have a one-time use for some reason. Same with routez. The secret doors only work once, and if you don't get out before they close, you're stuck.
Edit: Ok, I've figured out what the problem is. The door was checking to see if it was exactly where it started before it would open again (I guess so it won't start the opening sequence over and over). For some reason, it was ending up a fraction of a unit off at the end, so it would think it was already opening, and never open again. This should be fixed for the next release. I also discovered another bug - the secret doors will destroy equipment instead of sending it home like the normal doors do.
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Is there a link to download this that's not broken?
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ftp://otb-server.de/pub/Maps/draw.bsp (ftp://otb-server.de/pub/Maps/draw.bsp)
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TY