Digital Paint Discussion Board

Fairness Enforcement => Cheater Reports and Bans => Topic started by: jitspoe on April 28, 2010, 10:53:48 PM

Title: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: jitspoe on April 28, 2010, 10:53:48 PM
Names used:
Sicko
*STaRz*sicko
*STaRz*MuFFy
Freakie
*STaRz*Hexed
Hexx
MuFF
*STaRz*MuFF

IP's:
99.243.100.248 = CPE002129c57066-CM001bd7ac4a7e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com
99.243.102.213 = CPE001ee5041543-CM001ac30e9cfa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com
99.243.117.254 = 99.243.117.254

DPLogin ID: 5199
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: jitspoe on May 01, 2010, 03:00:47 PM
Bans of popular players tend to fill up with pointless, inane, and off-topic comments.  I'm simply trying to keep things clean.  Here is the kind of posts I've been deleting:

lol

jitspoe is on a roll

OMG

Shocking.

ooooo foooyeee

muffy...

And then the flood of "Why was my post deleted?" comments.

Maybe you want to scroll through 10 pages of that crap to find posts with actual content.  I don't.  It's also a pain for second offense bans when I have to start a new thread or delete 5 pages of crap because things have gotten out of hand.  It starts out with the simple "lol" posts, then people start commenting on other people's posts, then the posts about other people who are banned and shouldn't be posting on the forums, then it degrades to name calling.  I'm jus trying to nip this at the bud.

Here are some simple guidelines:
- If your post isn't about Muff's ban, it will be deleted.
- If your post is less than one sentence, it will probably be deleted.
- If I, or another moderator, feel your post contributes nothing to the discussion, it will be deleted.

That said, there isn't a whole lot to discuss.  I'm 100% sure he was cheating.  I have more evidence on him than just about any other player I've banned.  Since he refuses to come clean, I guess I'll explain what he was banned for, since I know you're all curious.

Back when modded maps were all the rage, I created some new detection for them.  There weren't a whole lot of people using them at first, and the detection was still kind of in the testing stage.  Then muff shows up using them.  I expressed my disappointment in him, figuring he had enough character to immediately come clean and apologize, but he played innocent the whole time and managed to convince me that there must have been an error in my cheat detection.

I spent a couple months reviewing and testing the code to see if there was any way it could have possibly generated false positives, meanwhile, other players, thinking modded maps were undetectable, distributed hacked maps like wildfire, and the cheating really got out of hand, but I didn't want to ban people based solely on what might have been false positives in the cheat detection.  Eventually, I had to, and pretty much all of the people banned admitted to exactly what was detected.

Then, a couple days ago, I see Muff using modded textures and add the long-overdue ban.  I decided to test this honesty by having him send me a screenshot.  The textures in question in his screenshot were conveniently removed/replaced, so now I know 100% that he has been lying to me, too.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: atmays on May 01, 2010, 03:44:42 PM
How about, Lock all the threads about hackers and Only you can add anything to them. Then you wouldnt have to worry about the pointless posting.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Bix on May 01, 2010, 04:22:04 PM
It is very unfortunate that Muff cheated. I would never have suspected that Muff would cheat then proceed deny it over and over and continue to cheat.

For me this raises another question. How many people are wallhacking in some form and able to hide it completely?  No one would have suspected Muff of hacking even while he was hacking, he was able to hide that he was cheating. How many others could do the same?
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: theSYNDIKATE on May 01, 2010, 04:58:43 PM
It is very unfortunate that Muff cheated. I would never have suspected that Muff would cheat then proceed deny it over and over and continue to cheat.

For me this raises another question. How many people are wallhacking in some form and able to hide it completely?  No one would have suspected Muff of hacking even while he was hacking, he was able to hide that he was cheating. How many others could do the same?

Bix is right.

IMO There probably ARE a handful or even a dozen of other long time players with 'ridiculous skill' who also have found undetectable methods to exploit the game. Problem is, since they're already so well known and have been playing so long no one really questions or suspects that they're cheating in anyway.

Hopefully this makes the DP2 community open up their eyes a little more on it's old school players.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: atmays on May 02, 2010, 01:50:23 AM
It is very unfortunate that Muff cheated. I would never have suspected that Muff would cheat then proceed deny it over and over and continue to cheat.

For me this raises another question. How many people are wallhacking in some form and able to hide it completely?  No one would have suspected Muff of hacking even while he was hacking, he was able to hide that he was cheating. How many others could do the same?

I guess I agree with bix
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Ranger on May 02, 2010, 06:01:07 AM
I don't think there is a many that clever players (like muff) who could hide their hacking/cheating. Most of them usually want others to see their new "skill" so it's easy to find them...
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: vLaD on May 02, 2010, 12:35:35 PM
I don't think there is a many that clever players (like muff) who could hide their hacking/cheating. Most of them usually want others to see their new "skill" so it's easy to find them...

it's not clever. muff did not need to work on his reputation like some newbie's trying to get better. he was good so i don't understand why he did this. slight advantage yes. and i never expected this out of him either.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Promaster on May 02, 2010, 03:22:53 PM
well thats what he gets for trusting noobs though. coz he asked for their textures and there was prolli something rigged on it so when they got banned he got banned as well
Title: _
Post by: Dirty_Taco on May 10, 2010, 08:49:10 PM
Post removed
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: jitspoe on May 18, 2011, 09:38:35 AM
Detected again.

Names used:
Frags
[muff]
*STaRz*DR.MD
*STaRz*Frags
BAM
*STaRz*Bam
*STaRz*MuFFy
MuFF
*STaRz*MuFF

IP: 99.243.100.248 = CPE002129c57066-CM001bd7ac4a7e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com

DPLogin IDs:
5199

256 days unless he comes clean... some people never learn. :-\
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: CheMiCal on May 18, 2011, 11:37:20 AM
well that blows.... cya muff n tini.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Tini on May 18, 2011, 01:20:54 PM
Quick question.. I play on the same computer as muff so wouldn't my names be mentioned as well if this were to be true?

He does not hack, otherwise that would mean I hack.

Which I obviously don't.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: MyeRs on May 18, 2011, 01:28:13 PM
TiNi, it's names used while hacking. So, even though you play on the same computer the hacks were used while those names were playing. Your brother was hacking, not you, so no your name shouldn't be mentioned anywhere. But you do get caught in the ban since you share computers, see you in 256 :(
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Tini on May 18, 2011, 03:50:56 PM
So I talked to MuFF.  We both play on the same computer, same files, same settings, yada yada yada.... If there is ANY proof of him hacking then it should be also associated with me.  We are using the original game.  I talked to him and he's using the EXACT same things I use.  MuFF wouldnt lie to his own brother about a video game.  It doesnt make sense how he is the only one to get blame for it when i'm using the exact same settings and folders.  So in referral or answer to my previous question would lead me to believe this is a huge misunderstanding.  I have checked all the files in our dp folder and found only original content w/ the high res package downloaded from the fourms   - -  - This was done post  previous ban.. 

In fact I've walked into the room MANY times while he matches and no hacks have ever been displayed.   Quite honestly, i would like for this whole fourm topic to be disclosed.  THIS is a public invitation for jitspoe to validate and inform any new findings that would alter the game. 

With much respect: MuFF and TiNi.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Tini on May 18, 2011, 04:32:53 PM
As well i dont often check dplogin.  Email joe.depalma@hotmail.com
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: MyeRs on May 18, 2011, 05:28:55 PM
2nd offence is 64x2, not 128x2.... (Unless you're saying 128x2 since he didn't come clean last time, but either way 2nd offence should be 64x2 with ability to reduce upon coming clean. Consistency would be appreciated!!!
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: idias on May 18, 2011, 05:45:39 PM
Back when modded maps were all the rage, I created some new detection for them.  There weren't a whole lot of people using them at first, and the detection was still kind of in the testing stage.  Then muff shows up using them.  I expressed my disappointment in him, figuring he had enough character to immediately come clean and apologize, but he played innocent the whole time and managed to convince me that there must have been an error in my cheat detection.

I spent a couple months reviewing and testing the code to see if there was any way it could have possibly generated false positives, meanwhile, other players, thinking modded maps were undetectable, distributed hacked maps like wildfire, and the cheating really got out of hand, but I didn't want to ban people based solely on what might have been false positives in the cheat detection.  Eventually, I had to, and pretty much all of the people banned admitted to exactly what was detected.

Then, a couple days ago, I see Muff using modded textures and add the long-overdue ban.  I decided to test this honesty by having him send me a screenshot.  The textures in question in his screenshot were conveniently removed/replaced, so now I know 100% that he has been lying to me, too.
Myers, after reading this it made me think that jitspoe might have given him a longer ban the first time and if he didn't then I'm wrong and I'm sure he had his reasons for the current ban, if he did, the reason is pretty clear.

Not all cases are the same and we have to make our decisions upon the information we get. Not sure on how long was the 1st ban but I'm sure jitspoe didn't give him the 256 days randomly.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: MyeRs on May 18, 2011, 06:09:28 PM
Idias, this isn't the place for me to start a huge thing on the topic, but let's just say it isn't the first time a ban was randomly given out without any possible explanation to the length (not saying thats the case exactly in this case). I can prove this to anyone who doesn't believe, just pm me or something.

He had 64 days with the ability to shorten to 32 last time. He didn't come clean, he told everyone that it was textures. Jitspoe got fed up and posted what it was, so the ban time didn't get reduced. So I understand the reasoning behind 128, I just do not agree with it. 2nd offence should be 128 days, with the ability to be reduced to 64. (Sure, he may get the same ban time twice, but that would mean the 2nd time he came clean).
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: flip on May 18, 2011, 08:02:57 PM
Idias, this isn't the place for me to start a huge thing on the topic, but let's just say it isn't the first time a ban was randomly given out without any possible explanation to the length (not saying thats the case exactly in this case). I can prove this to anyone who doesn't believe, just pm me or something.

He had 64 days with the ability to shorten to 32 last time. He didn't come clean, he told everyone that it was textures. Jitspoe got fed up and posted what it was, so the ban time didn't get reduced. So I understand the reasoning behind 128, I just do not agree with it. 2nd offence should be 128 days, with the ability to be reduced to 64. (Sure, he may get the same ban time twice, but that would mean the 2nd time he came clean).

W/E MYERS!!!!

Seriously, We all know about the inconsistencies in ban lengths. There is discussions about reviewing the guidelines to solve this issue. When it comes down to it, I honestly think the committee should be able to decide amongst themselves a individuals ban length. This should be based on a quite a few things. Like admittance, why waste everyone's time when you know you are guilty? How about Honesty? Why not just be honest instead of trying to mislead individuals? Seriously, what he did to jitspoe was wrong in so many ways when he gave him the benefit of the doubt. This caused months worth of extra work for jitspoe that he could have spent doing something else.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: webhead on May 18, 2011, 08:13:25 PM
flip, the obvious problem there is that it's not impartial, and justice has to be impartial.
Unless, of course, the goal isn't justice, but rather vengeance or retribution.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: pvtjimmy on May 18, 2011, 09:59:17 PM
Did I miss something, or has he been caught by the cheat detection? I don't remember seeing any poll on this in the committee section?

For me this looks like the bantime has been decided on by Jitspoe only. After Tini's public invitation to give out info on the ban (I hope you realize he won't be able to come clean after this), I'm pretty sure Jitspoe will return to reply (at least on the bantime).
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: MOFO on May 18, 2011, 10:09:21 PM
it can pretty much be said the the ban time is probably 3x as long because jits gave him the proper chance to come clean but he didn't and instead lied about it. so where is the problem. when i cheated i came clean about it every time and even told him more than i should have. So there really shouldn't be any case going on here just a simple ban.

*waits on a reply from myers*


and wtf? theres a poll on the ban times? Seriously?
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: jitspoe on May 18, 2011, 10:16:00 PM
TiNi: Actually, your name did come up, but this is the ban for MuFF.

As for the ban time, it's a 3rd offense, so 128, x2 until he admits.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: webhead on May 18, 2011, 10:22:35 PM
Did I miss something, or has he been caught by the cheat detection?
Check the thread title; it was detected.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: MyeRs on May 19, 2011, 05:38:13 AM
TiNi: Actually, your name did come up, but this is the ban for MuFF.

As for the ban time, it's a 3rd offense, so 128, x2 until he admits.

Could you please inform me on which ban I'm missing? I've searched the forums and can't find it. I can only seem to see 2 offenses...

MOFO: You're reading the last ban (which I thought was a 1st offense ?!?) , and I'm not fighting the ban, I was confused about the ban time so I asked. And Jitspoe cleared it up, although I still can't seem to find more then 2 offenses, and an unresolved speedhacking thread.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Edgecrusher on May 19, 2011, 06:23:15 AM
How to easily solve this issue - you hack, you get banned for life. All things resolved. Anyone wanting to quit this game with hacks won't really get a chance to come back since 90% of them do.

Really, how pathethic you have to bee to hack in a FREE video game. And than you question developer of the game for imposing bans based on days. He really should be happy not to get lifetime ban.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Tini on May 19, 2011, 08:16:58 AM
TiNi: Actually, your name did come up, but this is the ban for MuFF.

As for the ban time, it's a 3rd offense, so 128, x2 until he admits.

How does that make sense...?  If my name DID come up then i should get banned too.  I can 100% assure you i have NEVER hacked post ban so my name shouldn't pop up.  This whole thing seems incredibly fishy.  We have yet seen any validation that he hacked after we called you out which gives me further doubt that this ban should be revoked.

I'll tell you my intel.
I've always walked into the room while he matches and i've never seen any wallhacks.
I assure you its not speed hacks 1. I've never seen any program on his computer that does that. 2.  Speed hacks are not detectable by your system, so i hear.
For textures: i've seen the ss's taken by the remote screenshots from the comittee none of them are altered in anyway.
Which really leaves you with one option to ban us for: "aimbotting", however I will stress he doesnt aimbot.  This would be the least evidential option. Hand eye co-ordination just runs in the family ;)  Sorry to all the people that i roll in dp with my unreal aim but i assure you that it is not an aimbot.


Comments to anyone who is crying about the days:  I or MuFF have not complained about the days posted.  So dont attempt to take personal attacks on character for no reason ie Edgecrusher, MOFO.

With the matter of character also being brought up.  The american community has been dwindling down to very few actual skilled players.  A few CC members, MyeRs, ChemiCaL, juiicy, Cuso, MuFF, Myself.  No offence to anyone i didnt mention these are just the MAIN active people that i think that are skilled and provide adequate competition for the american community. SO DONT REPLY BACK CRYING YOU'RE NOT ONE OF THEM OR HAVE DEBATE ABOUT WHO WAS MENTIONED.  For the most part, you are banning two leaders.  Two who don't hack and i feel being falsely accused.  Its been a mission of MINE and a hand full of others to create NEW teams to only recruit new pub newbies that we find to hopefully expand YOUR community jitspoe, doing you a favor.  In fact the teams being made weren't about having skill, yet it was an attempt to obtain a solid number of actual players we could get to become active and associated with all that comes to a real team. Which demonstrates that I or MuFF didn't even want to be good passed the point we were already at.  We just wanted competition.  I stress why would we hack when, for me anyways already at the top of the american community. The few people i mentioned earlier (minus CC of course whom all they think about is winning, yet still loose.) have been making great strides in rehabilitating the american community. It's most likely been the best attempt to harvest a new community.

I guess the dp 'american dream' is over, for no apparent reason.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Gamabunta on May 19, 2011, 09:14:41 AM
We have yet seen any validation that he hacked after we called you out which gives me further doubt that this ban should be revoked.

The speedhack thing (yes, I'm sure it was a speedhack): http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=21110.0 would be enough to ban MuFF. But since no action was taken back then, something else must've triggered the ban machine.

It's not in jitspoe's interest to tell you why MuFF's banned, it's in MuFF's interest to come clean and get his ban halved. Which I don't think will happen, seeing how you deny it.

Speed hacks are not detectable by your system, so i hear.

They are, but there might be some false positive hits, that's why people post demos of speedhackers, just to be 100% sure.

why would we hack

You tell us.

Its been a mission of MINE and a hand full of others to create NEW teams to only recruit new pub newbies that we find to hopefully expand YOUR community jitspoe, doing you a favor.
___
It's most likely been the best attempt to harvest a new community.

I laughed. Poor attempt of trying to get us take pity on you. Yet another person trying to say that the merciless jitspoe is banning people for nothing, killing the community and stuff. I'm getting sick of it.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: webhead on May 19, 2011, 09:18:35 AM
It's not in jitspoe's interest to tell you why MuFF's banned, it's in MuFF's interest to come clean and get his ban halved. Which I don't think will happen, seeing how you deny it.
but if he is indeed innocent, this is an unfair way of handling it (how could he come clean if he did nothing wrong?).
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Gamabunta on May 19, 2011, 09:19:38 AM
Ever seen someone being banned for nothing? I haven't. And there's the speedhack thing.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: pvtjimmy on May 19, 2011, 09:44:46 AM
I'm long enough on the committee to say Jitspoe doesn't ban for no reason.

@ TiNi; maybe this ban isn't about hacks. The topic title says "cheat/mod detected". From his first ban, I seem to read it was about (partially) modified maps. Maybe this has something to do with it?

If you want to know what this ban is about, I suggest to contact Jitspoe over forum PM.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: webhead on May 19, 2011, 09:47:38 AM
I'm long enough on the committee to say Jitspoe doesn't ban for no reason.
You're right, I realize that.

If you want to know what this ban is about, I suggest to contact Jitspoe over forum PM.
I agree -- forum PM or IRC /msg.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Tini on May 19, 2011, 11:07:41 AM
Gamabunta
Quote
I laughed. Poor attempt of trying to get us take pity on you. Yet another person trying to say that the merciless jitspoe is banning people for nothing, killing the community and stuff. I'm getting sick of it.

Pity on me?  Gama clearly you're taking this way to personally and claiming clauses that dont apply to me.  If you read very carfully this ban says MuFF not TiNi.  I'm not looking for pity in the slightest.  You should referr to facebook to try to make fun of random people you know because im sure you have a ton of friends. :)

and sorry im not to sure how the euro community is, but the american community is CLEARLY struggling to stay alive.  Deny this, and i can tell you dont know much or ignorant about dps' current situation.  I am merely a bystander who did nothing and getting punished for it.  Am i looking for pity? No.  I want to see first hand evidence that he hacked you fool.  

I have pm'd jitspoe and gave him my email, unfortuneltely for my brother he's been incredibly busy so hasn't been able to go on and write anything.

For anyone else who cares to personally attack people via a forum keep your trolling mouth shut, cause you really have no logical opinion when you do that   which leads to Prejudice bias. This should only be concentrated on the subject at hand.  So posting things like " OH HES CRYING CAUSE HE WANTS PITY " is clearly childish.  Try sticking to the issue.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Tini on May 19, 2011, 11:29:06 AM
Quote
Quote from: Tini on Today at 09:16:58 AM
why would we hack

Quote from: Gamabunta
You tell us.

For the record:  That could be one of the stupidest quotes i've ever seen. It paints me to post this because i'm aware i'm just contradicting myself, but really? Who says that... OKAY BRO ILL TELL YOU WHY PEOPLE HACK....
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: idias on May 19, 2011, 12:33:44 PM
Gamabunta
Gama clearly you're taking this way to personally (...) You should referr to facebook to try to make fun of random people you know because I'm sure you have a ton of friends. :)
.


For anyone else who cares to personally attack people via a forum keep your trolling mouth shut, cause you really have no logical opinion when you do that   which leads to Prejudice bias. This should only be concentrated on the subject at hand.  So posting things like " OH HES CRYING CAUSE HE WANTS PITY " is clearly childish.  Try sticking to the issue.
He didn't do any personal attack or anything of the kind. It was more like a generalization of what everyone does everytime they get banned. Couple people get in here saying jitspoe is killing the community and they tried to do the best for the game and blabla. I'm not saying you didn't help the community, I'm actually aware you took in new players in your clan. Not sure muff has been active enough recently to help the American community "rise" again but I'm not really an expert on the matter.

The reason it makes me, Gama and a couple others not believe you is mostly the fact that everyone that gets banned does the exact same thing. Saying the detection system generated a false positive, saying they used nothing, saying that this is going to kill the community and whatnot, Muff included in that list of people.  The detection system so far hasn't lied, as far as I know. From experience cheat detection > people who were caught by it.
In the remote possibility this is true, the fact that you helped the community or not has nothing to do with this, hence Gama's post. Try to sort this out with jitspoe privately.

Let's make it clear... People hacking is ruining the game, not jitspoe/committee banning the hacking people. It's getting boring to see everyone calling each other hackers and whatnot, and once we actually ban the people you reported "you guys" come here and complain about us taking action. Of course if we don't do anything I suppose you'll complain aswell...
Tini, I'm not saying this applied to you or your brother, just letting it out.

How does that make sense...?  If my name DID come up then i should get banned too.  I can 100% assure you i have NEVER hacked post ban so my name shouldn't pop up.  This whole thing seems incredibly fishy.  We have yet seen any validation that he hacked after we called you out which gives me further doubt that this ban should be revoked.

I guess the DP 'american dream' is over, for no apparent reason.
This thread is about Muff, not you.
Why all the mess about? The solution for this is quite simple:
1) Accept the ban, whether it's Muff, Tini or both;
2) In the unlikely chance it was a false positive, try talking to jitspoe privately;

Jitspoe doesn't ban people randomly, I'm sure there was a valid reason.
Also... "I guess the dp 'american dream' is over, for no apparent reason." --> Cheesy...
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Tini on May 19, 2011, 12:44:44 PM

Also... "I guess the dp 'american dream' is over, for no apparent reason." --> Cheesy...

i found it to be a clever and humerus way for my conclusion:)
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: webhead on May 19, 2011, 01:07:45 PM
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t91/Broodstar13372/humerus.jpg) ;)
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: MyeRs on May 19, 2011, 01:29:09 PM
Hop off TiNi, he posted saying MuFF told him he didn't hack, then Jitspoe told him his name came up so he decided to fight it.

At least the one thing this community can be consistent about is generalizing people, the one thing it shouldn't be consistent about. Hey allstar committee and perfect jitspoe, you've never seen mistakes? What about the ones you guys have made and that have been revoked? Here's an example: http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=15866.0 --- Oh, and there's more!!! I saw a ban added to the one and only Shockwave, 'shk' while he was active. (This was a while ago) I msg'd shk, got him to check and within 20 minutes the thread got taken down. Probably a false positive. This HAPPENS, so until he's proven wrong (since really there was no suspicion of hacking on TiNi or MuFF's part) just hop off and wait. TiNi has the right to post here, it's related to him, you can go on not believing all you want, but the fact is mistakes happen and TiNi knows better then anyone who's posted in this thread (aside from Jitspoe) the truth so none of you guys posting can say anything but compare him to others, which he's not. You're posts are useless, you generalize him, which sure go ahead but you don't need to do this in every ban thread, let TiNi argue and wait for Jitspoe then you can go: AHAH HACKER I TOLD YOU SO, but TiNi has never been banned for hacking, and he's still not. He's arguing his brother's case since it's related to him and he thinks its a mistake.

So in all, committee stay out of this, it had nothing to do with you guys it was a detection. Nobody cares for your opinions on it, this isn't a multiple account case, thanks! I only posted to point out that this in fact a 2nd offense, so it should be 64x2 days, not 128x2, Jitspoe made a mistake here (by thinking its 3rd offense) UNLESS there's a ban that is pre-dplogin.com/forums that I can't find and TiNi doesn't know about. TiNi is posting assuming his brother didn't lie to him, (this could cause family issues if MuFF lied), so there's no need to post until Jitspoe answers or MuFF makes an appearance.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: webhead on May 19, 2011, 01:50:10 PM
so committee members aren't allowed to post opinions but everyone else is?
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: MyeRs on May 19, 2011, 01:52:36 PM
^ speaking on committee's behalf, no. It doesn't concern the committee. Just like we can't post on topics the committee are looking into. Talking as individuals of the community sure. But there posts are irrelevant and technically should be deleted. I'm sure if I posted those comments in somebodies ban threads they'd be removed. Special treatment FTW!!!!!
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: idias on May 19, 2011, 01:55:41 PM
I wasn't, and I can probably say the rest of the allstar committee members weren't speaking on behalf of the committee aswell, but solely speaking as active members of this communitty.
I said, and I quote:
Quote
The detection system so far hasn't lied, as far as I know. From experience cheat detection > people who were caught by it.
Cheat detection isn't flawless and that is why jitspoe takes the extra steps and checks everything before banning a player. You can't base a decision solely on 1/2 cases that are an exception. It's made out of average and stuff. So if 1/100 bans (perhaps a bit exagerated :P) is a mistake and revoked that can't be a major factor, otherwise no one will be banned. Everyone believes they're the exception, perhaps you are, but from most cases, and I believe you can agree with me, you aren't the exception...
You've said this yourself I believe. Who knows maybe we're all wrong.  

Oh and I used "us" refering to the committee the same way I could've used "them" when speaking about this. You're right, we have no bussiness with this since we don't actually know "anything" about it, but I/everyone else can still have opinions.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: webhead on May 19, 2011, 02:03:44 PM
I wasn't, and I can probably say the rest of the allstar committee members weren't speaking on behalf of the committee aswell, but solely speaking as active members of this communitty.
[...]
Oh and I used "us" refering to the committee the same way I could've used "them" when speaking about this. You're right, we have no bussiness with this since we don't actually know "anything" about it, but I/everyone else can still have opinions.
agreed
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: MyeRs on May 19, 2011, 02:17:58 PM
I only posted the lies of the cheat detection, to show Gama mistakes happen. I may look like a complete moron defending this within the next few days (although I'm not so much defending it, as I am trying to get other people to hop off) but I'm trusting TiNi's and MuFF's word, so I know it is a possibility (sure a slim one) that there may be a mistake. So until I get told what they used, I'm not going to jump in on the hate wagon.

Also, I don't care about the committee posting but they could show some maturity and stop generalizing. I guess that's just really Gamabunta who was truly hating, but he's just a hate filled person in general always getting mad. So I guess him generalizing TiNi with every hacker (when TiNi didn't hack) is kinda like me generalizing his rage as the committee's. Oh well, community wont ever improve but that's another story for another day.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Delphi on May 19, 2011, 02:49:46 PM
I only posted the lies of the cheat detection,....
You did? Multiple account =/= cheat/mod
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: MyeRs on May 19, 2011, 02:51:33 PM
You did? Multiple account =/= cheat/mod

Oh I'm sorry, in one of my previous posts I stated Jitspoe makes mistakes, then I generalized it like everyone else does in this community. The point is, the Cheat detection sends jitspoe info, just like the committee gets jitspoe info, and mistakes can be made. (Also, the ban revoking of Shk a while ago, is cheat detection error ;) ). But good post!
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: flip on May 19, 2011, 03:01:46 PM
Myers,
  Does it really help to keep pointing gout everything the committee has done that you believe is wrong? Even when the committee keeps changing and with that, trying to perfect the issues it has as individuals complain. It is easy to say "you should do this for every situation" until you open your eyes to realize that almost every situation is different.
    Yes. Mistakes happen. Would you rather Jitspoe just stuck with the bans when he is wrong to cover it up to seem perfect? Or should he do the right thing and fix it showing that both computers and humans can error? Choose. It can't be both.


Also.....

To all,

Jitspoe does not need to justify the ban length to anyone. He CAN inform the INDIVIDUAL as to why but he really doesn't even have to do that. Most of the committee replies are fairly specific as to what they are about. The simple thing would be for one of the moderators to simply lock each cheater thread after Jitspoe makes his post and allow the cheater to contact him the normal way. This is an open forum and most would prefer to keep it that way. So from now on, if you stick your noes into other peoples business I shall just make you and your post disappear. 
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: MyeRs on May 19, 2011, 03:12:03 PM
Flip, I don't know if you read all my posts but I pointed out to Gama that mistakes happen, and have happened. I'm fine with somebody making a mistake and fixing it, that's why right now I trust TiNi and MuFF when they say they did not hack, and I'm waiting for Jitspoe to reply to them. Yeah, I may look stupid if he proves them wrong, but that's what happens sometimes when you trust people. I don't get where you got that I don't think it's possible he can make a mistake, I know if he finds out it was a mistake he'll fix it like he did when he revoked bans before. I'm still confused why that was pointed to me....?

And to the first part, no I don't believe it's going to help because I don't believe it's going to change anything as it's very rare to see change in this community. That being said, you can't expect me to change what I'm doing when nothing else ever changes can you? And obviously every situation is different, but the rules broken are the same (if we're talking about ban lengths). Nowhere does it say you must help the committee get you banned and never deny stuff or your ban will increase. But, that's something that wont change (like just about everything else in this game).

I was curious about the length so I asked why, Jitspoe's reasoning was '3rd offense' when after searching the forums I can only find 1 previous offense (both in this thread) so I'm assuming he made an error, or I just am blind. He didn't need to justify anything, but we're allowed to ask questions. This is an open forum, and it will stay that way, you're a moderator sure, but you don't control the forum. It's a public forum where the community can and will post their opinions. If they aren't raging or flaming other users, there is no reason to do anything. But sure pull off that magic trick and make me disapear, since it's clearly related to me and not the committee members who posted. Prove the inconsistency issues in this game boss ;)
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Tini on May 19, 2011, 03:31:15 PM
It is easy to say "you should do this for every situation" until you open your eyes to realize that almost every situation is different.
    Yes. Mistakes happen.   

Thank you flip, you are 100% right.  Every situation is different.  So players like myself, muff or any other respected player shouldn't be generalized.  Mistakes do happen.  Therefore, further investigations are required or at least proof of the hacks  he used.

As for the ban length, this would be the second time MuFF has gotten banned.  Show me proof of two other incidences where he HAS been banned and not TRIALS where he has been governed his innocence.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: SkaDooSh on May 19, 2011, 09:59:09 PM
Hi.

http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/feature.php?id=10209
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Rick on May 20, 2011, 12:36:46 AM
I saw MuFF as one of those people who would learn from their mistakes.... Guess I was wrong.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Edgecrusher on May 20, 2011, 01:48:43 AM

Comments to anyone who is crying about the days:  I or MuFF have not complained about the days posted.  So dont attempt to take personal attacks on character for no reason ie Edgecrusher, MOFO.


Well just to get one thing straight here. I have absolutely nothing against you or your bro, as a matter of fact you are one of the first persons I got to know in DP. It wasn't meant as a personal attack, it's my statement and opinion. If you see it as crying, your hand eye coordination may not be that good. I know that when you wrote that post you were raging over more than one matter and attacking me isn't the way of handling things. I truly believe that every cheater should be banned for good, was it your brother, my brother, someones daugter, grandfather, bff... Only thing complicating the matter is that you share the same IP and it's unfair to you and untill there is a way to keep your brother banned while you play on the sam IP, it will stay unfair.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Tini on May 20, 2011, 08:27:47 AM
He does.  People are writing essays for no reason here.  I'm not going to read it, because nothing is going to happen because of it.  Therefore his post is quite relevant.

Cameron, i'm pretty sure the moderators are on everyones throats about writing useless or inappropriate posts that are unrelated to the topic.  Seeing a committee member post immature statements raises further doubt in my mind about them being correct about my brother.

In referral to your post:  Yes, i am writing 'essays' as you call it to defend someone.  If i didn't care/think it was 100% false i wouldn't be doing this.  Don't read it, no one asked you too, however if you don't read whats been said i really don't think you have any place to say something.

Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Toxiic on May 20, 2011, 03:03:30 PM
Well nice knowing you tini ill see u earlier (hopefully) or in 256 days, i fell your pain bro [Turst me].

look at the bright side u can play against the bot offline... :(
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: Ace on May 22, 2011, 02:49:52 PM
The whole system of, come clean and you'll be punished less, is terribly flawed. If the person never did anything, quite possible here, then they get an extended punishment for something they didn't do.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: flip on May 23, 2011, 01:57:47 PM
Seeing a committee member post immature statements raises further doubt in my mind about them being correct about my brother.

Wasn't this detected by the system? What is the committee wrong about here?
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: idias on May 23, 2011, 03:30:14 PM
The whole system of, come clean and you'll be punished less, is terribly flawed. If the person never did anything, quite possible here, then they get an extended punishment for something they didn't do.
If it's quite possible here, it's quite possible everywhere. This one is not that different from the rest of the cases.

Why is anyone still posting here anyhow? Committee related comments are irrelevant since the committee has no bussiness whatsoever in this one. If Muff/Tini have any issues they should PM jitspoe.
Title: Re: Cheat/Mod Detected: *STaRz*MuFF
Post by: flip on May 24, 2011, 02:38:41 PM

Why is anyone still posting here anyhow? Committee related comments are irrelevant since the committee has no bussiness whatsoever in this one. If Muff/Tini have any issues they should PM jitspoe.


Agreed. Problem fixed.