Digital Paint Discussion Board
Fairness Enforcement => Cheater Reports and Bans => Topic started by: jitspoe on October 11, 2007, 01:26:34 AM
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5100 [CC]dystro
36752 J3ROME
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how many days?
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http://www.dplogin.com/gbl/banlist.php
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[CC]dystro, J3ROME
Reason: Multiple accounts
Created: 2007-10-11 02:28:07, Modified: 2007-10-11 02:29:33, Expires: 2007-10-27 02:29:33
Days Left: 15.7
didn't he admit to using multiple accounts? why is it 16 days?
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The offense was with forethought and malicious intent.
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The second account was determined to be his before he admitted to it.
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That's funny.
He only made the account by accident. He meant to make a forum account, to vote for the committee. But made a global login account.
Seeing as he doesn't use this forum ever. Noticing that he has 9 posts. He didn't know what he had to do to make an account the right way.
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The second account was determined to be his before he admitted to it.
You act like you're sitting around on irc 24/7 waiting for me to message you, considering whenever i do you just ignore it anyways. I also explained it to you just like how jigsaw said. Meaning that i only meant to make a forum account, and not a login name. So by me making a mistake and then admitting to it, i don't see how that should warrant a full ban.
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HAHA you got banned !!! LOL !11! Sry, just cant believe the whole accident part.
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Meaning that i only meant to make a forum account, and not a login name.
If you thought that was the way to make a forum account, why didn't you just try to log in using account 5100? Seen as though you had already gone through the process anyway? Thats not even mentioning that you also have to explicitly click to agree to only having one account.
Couldn't you remember your forum login to the account you are posting with now? You know the one you created last year? Even if you wanted to create a new account, couldn't remember how you did it last time?
He only made the account by accident. He meant to make a forum account, to vote for the committee. But made a global login account.
Are you trying to say he wanted to create another account to vote more than once?
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way to go by the rules. he DID admit to making another account. it WAS an accident. even though the ban isn't too long he still shouldn't get the full 16 days because he did come forward. he did not know you had already found out he had a second account. bullexcrement committee.
# Admitted registration of multiple accounts = 8 day ban
# Accidental registration of multiple accounts = warning
he admitted it, and also stated it was an accident. so why does he get 16 days? don't make up rules and/or punishments if you are not going to follow them.
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# Admitted registration of multiple accounts = 8 day ban
# Accidental registration of multiple accounts = warning
he admitted it, and also stated it was an accident. so why does he get 16 days? don't make up rules and/or punishments if you are not going to follow them.
I think there is a clause somewhere which states that for each condition you meet, a multiplier of that degree will be applied to the highest ban length of the met conditions. In this case it would be 2x on 8 days, for a grand total of 16 days. [/sarcasm]
No idea why anyone thought to start the committee off with a witch-hunt for multiple accounts would be the best course of action. Not really the best way to win over everyone's trust. Maybe it could have been started by settling some name disputes or coming up with a couple forum/server/account policies...
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way to go by the rules. he DID admit to making another account. it WAS an accident. even though the ban isn't too long he still shouldn't get the full 16 days because he did come forward. he did not know you had already found out he had a second account. bullexcrement committee.
# Admitted registration of multiple accounts = 8 day ban
# Accidental registration of multiple accounts = warning
he admitted it, and also stated it was an accident. so why does he get 16 days? don't make up rules and/or punishments if you are not going to follow them.
The Committee doesn't believe it was an accident, refer to my post above. As for admitting it, admitting to it after we have discovered the fact does not grant you redemption, neither does it grant you an 8 day ban. We are following the rules we have set out.
No idea why anyone thought to start the committee off with a witch-hunt for multiple accounts would be the best course of action. Not really the best way to win over everyone's trust. Maybe it could have been started by settling some name disputes or coming up with a couple forum/server/account policies...
Witch hunt? We do not sit around thinking of players names to check for multiple accounts. We do however follow leads, that is for instance, people informing us of a suspicious account accompanied with a good reason.
As for your suggestion to start off with different issues, why should we dismiss part of what we were set up for to try to "gain trust" falsely? We do deal with each and every issue that we can, we do not just deal with multiple accounts issues. Surely the best way to gain trust is to treat each issue that arises equally as we have been doing?
I'd also like to say that we are happy for people to comment on our decisions, thats one reason why these ban threads are made, and not simply put on the ban list. We do not want to make poor decisions, and if we do, we are glad to know that Community will let us know of it. But this is a two way relationship, issues need to be discussed that are worthy to, and have a reason to be discussed.
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I've looked at and read all kinds of issues, not just multiple accounts.
As far as I see it, every member on this committee has been fair and as informed as they could be in making their votes and comments on matters.
For me, the choice to vote for any ban is hard. I hate to see people get banned, but rules are rules without bias.
I think, once the initial overwhelming number of issues are cleared out, people are going to get the message that those explicit instructions that sit right in front of your face when you make an account are there for a reason. Even if there is question, there is no reason an account creation can't be delayed till a committee member, or Jitspoe, is talked to about it. At the very least, if you tell a committee member that you are creating an account, and not sure you already have one, or about any confusion you may have, when the multiple account infraction is brought before the committee that committee member can stand up for your intentions and confusion on the matter. It's not rocket science.
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You act like you're sitting around on irc 24/7 waiting for me to message you, considering whenever i do you just ignore it anyways. I also explained it to you just like how jigsaw said. Meaning that i only meant to make a forum account, and not a login name. So by me making a mistake and then admitting to it, i don't see how that should warrant a full ban.
I got your message, but as I mentioned before, it was AFTER we determined that you had a second account. One (or more) of the committee members contacted you to find out why you had a second account, after which you messaged me.
Even if the global login account was "accidental", the reason for creating an additional (forum) account was ban worthy, anyway, in my opinion.
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jits i love you (no homo) but i might have to go with coLa on this one.
He did in deed come forward regardless of whether or not he was already under suspicion. I do not believe the committee followed the rules they provided =\
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This is really bullexcrement.
It was a complete accident on his part. He didn't mean to make a global login account to play dp.
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Jig... i dont think its bull excrement because of the accidental aspect... more because the ban is twice as long as it should be =\. He did tell the committee he had made a second one on accident regardless... also if that be the case, why wasnt Haze banned for his accidental account a few months ago?
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By the way, I know this is a little off topic, but why should someone get banned in-game for registering another account?
I know of no other games that run by this rule.
Just seems odd to me.
Maybe the account should get deleted, maybe a warning, but a full out ban?
My oh my, its as if they were wallhacking, but only with only have the screen see-through. (Hence the 16 day ban :P)
Anywho, unban dystro. He wouldn't have known to come forward until after the committee member messaged him, as Jigsaw stated: He hardly ever visits the forums.
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im with queenie but i think that since he never lied about having made it that he should only have an 8 day TOPS for honesty... I think this is where you're going to start to have some discretion toward the committee...
I totally agree with this committee idea but like, i dont see where or why you would come up with banning him this long given the circumstances
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I don't see why registering another account is a bannable offense.
Anybody shed some light on why this might be?
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Should have came forward earlier.
The rule is there for 3 months or so.
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Bah forgot to add a "why" to it.
:P
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Anywho, unban dystro. He wouldn't have known to come forward until after the committee member messaged him, as Jigsaw stated: He hardly ever visits the forums.
I hardly think him knowing about coming forward with your multi-account will result in a lesser ban time would have made any difference. After all, he did make the second account in the first place after explicitly agreeing to the "only 1 account per person" rule. You are telling me he would have the honesty to come forward with it if we didn't know about it? Surely the simple fact that he made the account in the first place negates your logic?
I don't see why registering another account is a bannable offense.
Anybody shed some light on why this might be?
It is a rule set up by Jitspoe, for reasons that were discussed in the how to implement the dplogin thread before it was created. There is a rule, and thus it holds a punishment. Why are you trying to tell us to lower the punishment for rule-breaking? Are you implying that rule breaking is ok? Surely you should be for, rather than against punishments to make sure that the rules are respected?
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Well Lekky, here is my logic:
Let me use a comparison:
If someone tells you not to smoke a cigarette, and you had never head of what a cigarette was before, what will you do? Most likely smoke it. Why? Because you do not know what the repercussions will be. The repercussions being lung cancer, yellowed teeth, bad breath, etc.
The same goes for registering multiple accounts. It tells you that you are only allowed to register one account, but it doesn't say what will happen to you once you make it. So dystro made the account, and assumed that he would not get banned for such a small thing as a multiple account. He assumed that at *MOST* it would get deleted. So therefore he went ahead and made the account, whether by accident, or on purpose, he still did not know he would be banned.
That, and the fact that getting banned for multiple accounts is unreasonable in general, is why I think dystro should be unbanned.
And Lekky, rules are meant to be broken if they were made for reasons that are either non-existent.
Maybe there are reasons. If you could point these out to me I will wave the white flag and bow down to thee. Until then, the war wages on.
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Well Lekky, here is my logic:
Let me use a comparison:
If someone tells you not to smoke a cigarette, and you had never head of what a cigarette was before, what will you do? Most likely smoke it. Why? Because you do not know what the repercussions will be. The repercussions being lung cancer, yellowed teeth, bad breath, etc.
Really? I would have thought it was because there is no law against smoking cigarettes.
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Lekky just called me silly on IRC.
I give up.
You win.
Make your pointless laws and abide by them. FOR IF YOU STAY I WILL EAT YOUR FIRSTBORN.
And lekky, there is a law against smoking cigarettes, being: you have to be over 19.
Your move, sherlock.
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The global login, and accounts that are registered for it, are there to make sure that each person that logs in and plays is allowed to be.
Cheaters, haxorz, cheat distributors, and other offenders get banned.
The global login system keeps them out.
Creating another account is a means of eluding a global ban.
So...registering multiple accounts are not allowed.
Do you know the penalty for non-malicious man slaughter in the second degree?
I don't either, but it's a crime, and committing it yields a punishment. Me thinking they may just give me a small fine for it is no justification of committing the crime.
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The global login system doesn't keep them out silly.
IP bans or hardware bans do.
All the login system does is protect names from being stolen and whatnot, it doesn't provide a way for cheaters to evade bans, unless they are server only.
Rebuttal?
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Nah lekky. i wasnt on IRC before sorry but heres my point im making.
You told us if we had multiple accounts to come forward and tell you to get a shortened ban. ie(8 days)
And word on the street is that dystro did tell you he had registered a second account prior to him being banned... I do not think it is fair that you ban him because "it was already under investigation before he came forward"
That is where I have the problem. It should be an 8 day ban not a 16, he did tell you prior to him being banned... the rule was never "given its not already being looked into"
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He is believed to have come forward after knowing his account was under investigation.
I do not think it is fair that you ban him because "it was already under investigation before he came forward"
Of course, thats not fair and we couldn't justify, nor would we want to do anything like that. We don't want to ban people, if only you guys could see the efforts of the guys on the Committee to find ways of justifying peoples actions you wouldn't even think about saying this.
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no lekky lol i dont think anything along those lines.
I just thought the rule was that your ban will only be 8 days if you come clean and admit to it.
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if only you guys could see the efforts of the guys on the Committee to find ways of justifying peoples actions you wouldn't even think about saying this.
Exactly, we wouldn't have to ask so many questions and a level of trust could be established.
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P!nk do you have IRC? if so get on
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We (the committee) have decided. The End.
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I hardly think him knowing about coming forward with your multi-account will result in a lesser ban time would have made any difference. After all, he did make the second account in the first place after explicitly agreeing to the "only 1 account per person" rule. You are telling me he would have the honesty to come forward with it if we didn't know about it? Surely the simple fact that he made the account in the first place negates your logic?
i see alot of people quoting the registration rules. to me i dont think that is an acceptable argument because, i mean honestly, how many of you EVER sit there and actually read the license when you are downloading something? 99.9% never ever ever ever. why sit there and read something when you can just so easily click "accept" or "i agree" and move on with the installation of whatever it is you are downloading. i mean just by the amount of posts that dystro has you can tell he only looks at the forums to post in certain threads. it shows that he doesnt sit here like most of us and read every new thread that opens up. so there is really no way of knowing (other than word of mouth) about the ban for multiple accounts. yes i do realize that you guys caught him before he went and admitted it to a committee member, but you never gave anyone a chance to actually come forward and admit to having multiple accounts. instead, you went and secretly started matching ips to various accounts and started handing out the ban card. i feel that you went about this the WRONG way. you should have given people the chance to come clean instead of doing what you did. bad start to something(the committee) that was not needed. gj.
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Cola, I must disagree. On the registration page, you have to click 5 check boxes that are next to bold headings. They are kinda hard to miss. Either way, its the player's fault for not reading them.
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I don´t know why is this still under discussion. If the ban was given by Jitspoe, noone would ever mind. Give it a rest. Comitee is there with purpouse. There are 10 people in it. Surely they thought this through.
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I still don't understand why Lekky is in the committee. He is the most childish person in the community and also mean. My opinion is that people shouldn't get banned for multiple accounts, that's a silly rule and i can't understand it. I don't give a excrement if dystro gets banned but he shouldn't.
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It's forbidden to steal. I go steal. I get my punishment.
Now replace "steal" with "multiple-account". You get your answer why it's a ban.
As for multiple-accounts: Why the hell do you need more than one if you already can add enough names to your account?
The account-system has been added for identifying people and not so that people can do whatever they want with a fake account and get away with it without their more-or-less-respected well-known nick getting a bad image.
Dystro don't take it personal. I wanna state the regular case for henkka.
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We (the committee) have decided. The End.
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too cool to answer back. you know you were wrong in the way you went about this. nice job.
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too cool to answer back. you know you were wrong in the way you went about this. nice job.
Have you read any of my comments in this thread? We have tried to answer you to the fullest, but in the end there is no valid argument being given to us.
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Any of you that know me know that I will argue tooth and nail for something I believe in.
If "I knew I was wrong" I would be fighting to reverse the decision.
I think the committee made the right choice in this matter.
Regardless of everything I just said above, the committee made its choice, is convinced it is the right choice, and nothing you say here will change that.
All cases will continue to be judged impartially. Multiple accounts are a bannable offense to the degree as deemed by investigation and discussion withing the committee.
Thank you...come again!
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Give the committee a break, it's tough to be in a position of power without knowing how you'll fit in... honestly, when I was first a mod here, I wanted to make these forums exactly how I thought they should be... professional, approachable, etc. Stuff I removed and banned for then, isn't what I believe in now.
Sure some stuff the committee will do at the beginning will seem asinine (unfortunately it's true), but once they've figured out how much they matter to the community, why people elected them, and how much their decisions help or hurt the game, I believe they' might change some of the rules they've made, but even better, they'll just make better rules to begin with.
-y00tz
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It tells you that you are only allowed to register one account, but it doesn't say what will happen to you once you make it.
Actually Queenie it does.
Registering more than one account may result in a global ban from all game servers.
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Thats just been recently changed Apocolypse. Thanks to Queenie for bringing that issue up.
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I think dystro was double clanning for another clan. Longer ban!
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Thats just been recently changed Apocolypse. Thanks to Queenie for bringing that issue up.
Oh I didn't remember seeing it but I assumed I must of missed it before.
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I told Lekky to change it.
Guess he took the initiative :D
But there goes my loophole... :-\
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I got your message, but as I mentioned before, it was AFTER we determined that you had a second account. One (or more) of the committee members contacted you to find out why you had a second account, after which you messaged me.
Even if the global login account was "accidental", the reason for creating an additional (forum) account was ban worthy, anyway, in my opinion.
why aren't you guys listening...they found out before he came forward so even if he made it on "accident" he still could be banned because he didn't admit to it right after making it.
EDIT: I know the committe made their decision but I decided to post that anyway.
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i dropped the fact that dystro's ban is longer than it should be, because i know it's done and it wont be changed. what i am trying to say is that you gave no one a notice or a chance to actually come clean about having multiple accounts. but i guess if you guys think this is the right way then so be it.
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Have you read any of my comments in this thread? We have tried to answer you to the fullest, but in the end there is no valid argument being given to us.
all the comments are just quotes from old threads. "if you would have read the rules blah blah blah" he obviously didnt. he did not know it would lead to a ban, and he also did not know that you didnt have to make a login account to post on the forums. it was totally accidental and somehow he got a full 16 day ban because "we the committee didnt believe it." oh well. excrement happens, it's done.
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Why then, did he play using that account? That doesn't sound like an accidental forum registration.
We have discussed this case thoroughly, and as a Committee came to a decision. We came to a decision after looking at all the evidence, and we feel we made the correct decision. Nothing is this thread has made us think otherwise.
all the comments are just quotes from old threads. "if you would have read the rules blah blah blah" he obviously didnt. he did not know it would lead to a ban, and he also did not know that you didnt have to make a login account to post on the forums. it was totally accidental and somehow he got a full 16 day ban because "we the committee didnt believe it." oh well. excrement happens, it's done.
You obviously haven't read the previous posts i made in this thread.
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im not even talking about dystro anymore. i dropped that already, but guess you didnt notice. what i am about to say has nothing to do with the ban on dystro.
what i have been saying since the beginning is that you never gave anyone a chance to come forward and explain why it is they created a second, third, forth, etc... account. instead of letting people know you were going on a search you just started banning people. imo this is wrong. you should have atleast given them a chance to explain what they were thinking or what they were trying to accomplish by making another account.
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THEY NEED SEARCH WARRANTS!!
:D
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im not even talking about dystro anymore. i dropped that already, but guess you didnt notice. what i am about to say has nothing to do with the ban on dystro.
what i have been saying since the beginning is that you never gave anyone a chance to come forward and explain why it is they created a second, third, forth, etc... account. instead of letting people know you were going on a search you just started banning people. imo this is wrong. you should have atleast given them a chance to explain what they were thinking or what they were trying to accomplish by making another account.
Interesting point cola, its kind of hard to to make a decision that will please everyone. On one hand people have broken the rule, so why should they even be given a chance to explain, on the other hand there may have been a genuine mistake on their part. We have been talking to people we investigate when we feel its appropriate to get some further information, or to clarify issues.
I can understand your anxieties about us just coming out and banning people, but honestly thats not the case, if we did that trust me, there would be 10x as many of these threads right now. We also take at minimum a couple of days to make decisions, in fact we can't put forward an answer or opinion until all the facts are gained, there is no option for us to do that, which forces us to make sure we are making informed decisions.
I don't think anyone has been surprised to see their name in a ban thread as we have talked to each person before the ban was handed out. We are trying to do whats right for everyone, and trying not to make mistakes, if we do then we will accept them and try to make amends, but so far I don't think we have.
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thanks for responding to what i was actually saying. sounds good to me.
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We talked to dystro, and either way his intents were malicious, and that's how we came up with this decision
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My intents were malicious, how come my ban time hasn't been increased?
Also, when am I going to get banned for my hacks.
I know they're undetectable, but come on.
*winks*
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We talked to dystro, and either way his intents were malicious, and that's how we came up with this decision
way to fail spook. if you would have taken the time to read the last couple posts you would have noticed i tryed to stop talking about dystro and steer my comments more toward they way you guys went about all of this. slow poke. maybe you should just let lekky be the committee spokesman.
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Who says i was talking about your posts?
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just shut up you dont know what you are talking about, and should not be on the committee. this whole thread is basically all my posts. how was creating another forum account to vote for committee members "malicious" pretty sure people do the same thing to vote for a president. you doing even know what you are saying. the whole creating another GBL account was just an accident. it was not made to use or double clan with(although he did use it afterwards, that wasnt the original intent) it was made solely to vote for committee members. nothing more. like i said you should let lekky speak on behalf of the committee members, or alteast someone other than yourself.
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Another flaming topic.