Author Topic: What drives away new players?  (Read 23111 times)

jitspoe

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What drives away new players?
« on: December 04, 2007, 01:46:57 AM »
Supposedly we're getting like 1000 downloads per day, but where do all those players go?  I thought it might be helpful to put together a list of all the things that might drive new players away from the game so that we can look into possible solutions.  Think back to when you were a newbie.  What made you want to quit?

Here are a few off the top of my head:
- Excessive custom content with slow downloads (once build 20+ becomes standard, this issue should be reduced considerably)
- When you fire up the game to check it out, you can't do anything (without knowing the console commands or having another person).
- Confusing login interface (that's been improved a bit)
- Dated graphics, low res textures, poorly built maps, etc.
- Poor sound quality and sound effects that may be annoying to some.
- People flying all over the maps at crazy speeds that appear to be cheating to players unfamiliar with strafe jumping.
- Maps tailored to said people which are difficult for new players to navigate.
- Doesn't match the player's preferred style of gameplay (can't do much about that).

Edgecrusher

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Re: What drives away new players?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2007, 05:28:19 AM »
Definitely annoying sounds. It took allot to get used to it.

But my main perception changed when I visited forums. I came here to see should I join clan or not, and also had read most of the topics in general. That's how I learned how to dj and some other tricks.

Advertising dplogin.com, sk8g website, leezerz (once they become fully functional) should keep a certain percentage of all of the new players coming in, making to them easier to learn how to play this game, since there's no tutorial (and most of the kids are used to walk trough them).

Maybe making a demo section on those pages that would show you tricks and tips, with written explanation what's that demo about.

KnacK

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Re: What drives away new players?
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2007, 05:53:06 AM »
The number one thing that drives new players away is the arrogance and the belittling of new players from the those that have played the game for ANY length of time.


Way below that are the graphics.  THere are only a few maps out there that take advantage of all of the capabilities that the limited engine can do, like COI, ub_rooftop, and a few others.  Players expect fantastic graphics like that.  Its almost liek comparing a 2d side scroller to a 3d game.

magalhaes

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Re: What drives away new players?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2007, 06:13:15 AM »
I think the players we get are not just new to the gaming scene but new to computers aswell!
They just download every free game they can find, and then probably find it too difficult to join a server or login or maybe they find the bots stupid idk.

lekky

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Re: What drives away new players?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2007, 06:52:08 AM »
The number one thing that drives new players away is the arrogance and the belittling of new players from the those that have played the game for ANY length of time.


Way below that are the graphics.  THere are only a few maps out there that take advantage of all of the capabilities that the limited engine can do, like COI, ub_rooftop, and a few others.  Players expect fantastic graphics like that.  Its almost liek comparing a 2d side scroller to a 3d game.

I think you have got that the wrong way round.

The #1 issue is the sounds/grahics/poor maps. You'll find that many people downlaod the game, play once, and never return. Most likely the server they joined was running ub_cliff/airtime/shaz33 or some other relatively poor map. Now take that and the sounds, which we dont notice as much anymore, but they really are terrible (go stick on any other game you play) gives a pretty horribel first impression. First impressions are permanent. If you download a free game and are hit with bad graphics, poorly made maps and terrible copyrighted sounds, what would you do?

And with regards to Knacks point, first timers don't play long enough for the general arrogance to have much of an effect. Of course if they join a server where people are bashing each other it will, but most pub servers arn't like that (most of the time). It sure does have an effect for pushing people away after the honeymoon period though.

XtremeBain

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Re: What drives away new players?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2007, 07:11:10 AM »
Just setup a ub_cliff speed server in each continent and have players auto-connect to the nearest one until they goto the menu and change the autoconnect to ub_cliff speed server option.

Zorchenhimer

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Re: What drives away new players?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2007, 07:27:54 AM »
The number one thing that drives new players away is the arrogance and the belittling of new players from the those that have played the game for ANY length of time.

Bingo.

Re

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Re: What drives away new players?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2007, 07:31:13 AM »
The number one thing that drives new players away is the arrogance and the belittling of new players from the those that have played the game for ANY length of time.

Agreed

y00tz

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Re: What drives away new players?
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2007, 07:58:08 AM »
The number one thing that drives new players away is the arrogance and the belittling of new players from the those that have played the game for ANY length of time.

That pretty much wraps it up.

I used to read reviews of Paintball from various download sites it's hosted at... if you really want to see what drives players away, read the negative feedback on our digg, or other sites.  The top complaints were our 'elitist' community and that 'the game looks 10 years old' both of which I think we could easily curb.


- Excessive custom content with slow downloads (once build 20+ becomes standard, this issue should be reduced considerably)

Also, Sk89q told me about the changes in the 2.60 patch to Wolfenstein: ET, that game has thousands of players still, and even after installing the patch and various recommended mods (jaymod, etpro, etc.) I couldn't play on any servers without first waiting through ~10 mb of downloads (w/ sv_allowdownload 0) So what's the difference between PB2 and ET?  About 295k/s.

I don't think we have excessive custom content,  Paintball 2 does have a large number of maps that don't come with the initial download, which is what I presume you're talking about.  Perhaps it'd would've have been better to replace some of the included maps, with maps that are played everyday.  But I agree, build 20 will hopefully really turn things around.

-y00tz

KiLo

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Re: What drives away new players?
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2007, 08:03:23 AM »
y00tz also hit something major there when he said people say 'the game look 10 years old.' This is so true. I know my roommates won't play it because they think it is to old.

Edgecrusher

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Re: What drives away new players?
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2007, 09:22:31 AM »
Discriminators...

Fitz

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Re: What drives away new players?
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2007, 09:36:23 AM »
There are many things that contribute to people leaving. Poor graphics, lack of online servers compared to other games (CSS or AA have hundreds of servers), and continuous use of the same pub maps certainly aid the "hit the road" process.

For me, I find it extremely sad that when I go into a match, I usually have to type "Ignore all" in console. From the constant slander of opposing clan members, to non-clannies subbing in for a match, there is absolutely no respect between clans in this game. Clan leaders need to control their members, thus providing the noob community something to look forward to.

The only reason why I started this game and didn't quit is because I started out on jump maps. If I started on Pubs where everyone is bashing everyone, I probably would not have continued to play.

lekky

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Re: What drives away new players?
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2007, 10:11:09 AM »
lack of online servers compared to other games (CSS or AA have hundreds of servers)

So if we had 500 servers people would be more likely to stay?!?! Thats a non-issue.

I should focus on the people who load up the game once, and never again. There are more of those than people that leave after a few weeks/months. Once we can get past that obstacle we can start to to think about longer term issues.

First impressions are everything. The sound/maps/gfx affect first impressions more than abuse in servers. I'd even argue that the abuse thing is something that affects us more than real first time players.

Fitz

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Re: What drives away new players?
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2007, 10:26:25 AM »
@Kilo -
It's not just our clan, it occurs everywhere, between all clans (as evident on IRC with the KBs and all that).

@Lekky -
I'm not suggesting that we get more servers, I'm just stating what I thought as I first opened the game. I noticed a considerable difference in the amount of servers which automatically lead me to believe that the game wasn't worth playing. Anybody familiar with other FPS games knows how many servers there are on a list, so they are already expecting 100+ servers to play on, which is certainly not realistic for PB.

This is a problem that can only be solved by getting more people, which is what we're trying to accomplish anyways.


Edgecrusher

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Re: What drives away new players?
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2007, 11:07:57 AM »
Don't get off topic here, on this issue. I dont't care what is happening between Kilo and Fitz. Yeah, in matches etiquete is mostly non knowing fact. Again, it's not an issue here.

We don't need any more new servers because it's hard to fill existing ones. Old servers are only who are close to full, f.e. GTs and OTBs. They are most popular, and because of that mainly full all the time, so when new player download this game, he wont say, oh, I'll just sit in this empty server and wait for others to come in.

Having more servers wont bring more people on. This thread is about what can be done to keep them playing.  You saw what Jits said - suposedly we get 1000 downloads per day. Let's say it's 100 downloads per day. It's alot.

Please try to be constructive, don't go off topic, and make a suggestion that can have actuall impact. Personal issues must stay away. Go flame on IRC.

ViciouZ

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Re: What drives away new players?
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2007, 11:50:56 AM »
I downloaded the game, started a map on bombsaway, and thought "what the hell, this game only runs in a window. and the textures and models look quite bad" so I closed it, and it stayed closed for 4 months. I only discovered the game while waiting for another game to install so i rummaged around in my drive and found it. Then I saw you could change settings and it went uphill from there. What would be nice is a tutorial map and a menu option for it. I'm working on the map but it could do with some better messages. Please vote for target_help in the feature vote thread.

sk89q

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Re: What drives away new players?
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2007, 12:01:50 PM »
I think the number one reason, hands down, people don't even bother to play one game is the graphics. Why play something so ancient looking when there's things like TF2 and Crysis on the market? There's no simple solution to this problem however, but in the meantime, we can still utilize better looking textures (as y00tz is helping the community do so) and spend more time in the aesthetics department during map development. No blitz, sankyou.

(On another note, the menu for Paintball in-game is pretty ugly. Someone should step up to redesign it!)

Past that, after a few games, players tend to realize the elitist community. The word "n00b" seems to fly around every 30 seconds on the public servers. If someone asks for help, they are left in the dark and the game continues. Not to mention the rudeness and racism you sometimes see on the servers that probably annoy new players. The articles on DP Resource, such as on jumping and the like, mitigate a problem a bit, but it requires players to know about the site and then practice on their own time. Then again, who wants to practice when they can just play other games? Newbies probably feel very inferior (and useless) in maps like airtime3.

Beyond that, if you suck, you suck. There's nothing that can be done about it, but I suppose that's a problem with the gameplay. In other games, i.e. Enemy Territory or TF2, there are alternate things you can do if you suck so much at getting players eliminated. In Paintball, if you suck, there's not much else you can do to contribute to the match. (Though arguably, this leads to newbies camping and lining, which also invokes the elitist attitude of other players, and even then, camping and lining are not 100% effective.) How this can be solved, I am not sure.

New players, besides being fed up with the above, likely get bored of the same maps [that they suck at] being played on repeat. The map gameplay never changes. However, before build 20, adding maps to be downloaded seem to have been a suicidal move because no one wanted to wait several minutes to get a map. The larger maps take up over 10 minutes to download, so you've just wasted probably half of the game obtaining the map. Build 20 should fix this though. :D

====

For a while, I was testing what settings on my server would make people actually want to use it. I didn't try to target veterans because the ping is so bad, but newbies don't know any better. Using maps that required any downloading left the server empty -- although people would connect, they'd drop out of the download ASAP. When I used maps that emphasized jumping like ub_rooftop or airtime3, the server was dead empty. When I fell back to maps with very little jumping, i.e. ub_cliff, there were players on the server. Also, to note, ub_cliff has "alternate gameplay" -- lining and camping. (These experiments are the basis for my statements above.)

Also, on another observation, once I accidentally made guntemp_dec 0 so your gun would stop shooting after one shot. I didn't realize this for a few days, but oddly, there were a number of newbies on the server actually enjoying themselves when I decided to come on.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2007, 12:34:03 PM by sk89q »

nightryder

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Re: What drives away new players?
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2007, 12:59:45 PM »
my friends said one of there favorite things were that the sounds made them laugh...

Justinph5

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Re: What drives away new players?
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2007, 01:13:59 PM »
i liked the death sounds....

2 things, trying to navigate the maps and players flying around too good for a new player to compete with....

XtremeBain

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Re: What drives away new players?
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2007, 01:24:16 PM »
- Let players register for a global login account in-game.
- Let players select their video settings the first time they open the game (just like high/med/low that other games have).
- Have help messages integrated into the hud like ET and wSw (those "Press L for Limbo Menu" sort've crap).
- Redo the in-game server browser so that players can filter out passworded servers and so that global login enabled servers show a little global login icon beside them.
- Have an option when chasing someone to turn on a display of the keys that the player is pressing (wsw/defrag/cpma(?) have this, ex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeF7APCD2s0)
- Make a race mode so that people can practice how to do jumps and strafe jump offline.  Online they can battle their friends on race servers and the server can keep a running tally of fastest times.
- Have a few slides of helpful tips that are displayed between maps and when you're downloading.  I don't know many PC FPS that use this, but console games are a good example.  Have an option to disable it.