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Author Topic: Official Maplist: Discussion  (Read 16459 times)
jitspoe
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« on: May 13, 2013, 05:31:40 PM »

There have been a lot of discussions about a set of official maps recently, so I'm going to take the first steps toward making that happen gradually.

What will it mean if a map is on the official map list?
 - Map will be included with the build (or possibly an official map pack if the size gets too large).
 - Map is accepted for matches and tournaments.
 - When stats are implemented, stats will be recorded for official maps.
 - Other map-specific data will be complete and included.
    - Navigation files for bots/any necessary files for offline play.
    - mapshots
    - mapinfo
    - loc files

What about maps that aren't on the list?
 - These maps can still be played and put into rotation on servers.  There may be some kind of serverlist filter setting to show/hide servers playing custom (non-official) maps.
 - Clans can still match on these maps if both clans agree.  If a clan wants to play on a non-official map and the other clan does not, it will not be played.
 - Statistics (if/when implemented) will not be tracked on these maps, or will be tracked separately.

What qualities should a map have to be added to the list?
 - Fun to play.
 - Well balanced for competitive play.
 - Accessible to new players (straightforward paths, no trick jumps required to get flags, etc.).
 - Good visual quality (perfectly aligned textures that make sense, good use of lighting, etc.)
 - Good performance
 - Bug free (no bad spawns, vis glitches, leaks, etc.)
 - GPL (open-sourced) to allow for community improvements.
 - Ideally, makes use of many of the paintball2 game features.
 - Safe for all ages to see.

How do maps get added to the list?
 - For starters, we will have a voting thread to determine the best map candidates: VOTE HERE
 - Maps that do not meet the qualities necessary for an official map, but have good potential may be reconstructed by the mapping committee.
 - Maps will be slowly added to the maplist -- probably 1 new map per release -- to give plenty of time for fixes, tweaks, and community feedback.

What if I don't like something about this?
 - This is a first pass at the concept, so feel free to discuss ways to improve it in this thread.
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Cameron
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« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2013, 05:48:27 PM »

Not sure about maps in the build, I think the idea of downloading something small is appealing to those that like myself, like a quick download to try something out, and also not all of us can get above 2 stars on speedtest.
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jitspoe
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« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2013, 06:19:17 PM »

Well, it may just be a small handful of maps that gets included.  I'd like to keep the full version under 50 megs.
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shockwave
68 Carbine

Posts: 310

« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2013, 07:04:36 PM »

Sup. Airtime/Pbcup_pforest/Carpathian/Castle1/Wobluda/Shazam22/Pbcup_sassault/Prolandr/Propaint1
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SuperMAn
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« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2013, 07:25:32 PM »

Tie this idea in with certified servers.

We could have a setting like sv_certified 1, that would lock the game settings so that all certified servers are the same.  Official maplist would be the rotation for these servers.  

You could tie in a whole stat system if you wanted, but that might be getting a bit too far ahead?
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Rick
Map Committee
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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2013, 07:56:06 PM »

This whole thing just made me go nuts! Best thing ever! Carps sex room will have to be removed.
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Cameron
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« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2013, 07:48:53 AM »

Well, it may just be a small handful of maps that gets included.  I'd like to keep the full version under 50 megs.
Like the sound of that.
Tie this idea in with certified servers.
+1.  Also with this make sure the servers have all the content, ie custom textures, considering the fact that some won't download the pack (if there is one).
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luckmore
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Posts: 381

« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2013, 08:31:48 AM »

I dont understand why people who are not playing this game voting for a offical maplist. Some american guys who arent that active anymore or not playing this game think they know what this game needs. I dont want to offend anyone of you but it is true. In my opinion we dont need something like that and it will make more players leave the game. And thats not only my opinion.


What about maps that aren't on the list?
 - Clans can still match on these maps if both clans agree.  If a clan wants to play on a non-official map and the other clan does not, it will not be played.
 - Statistics (if/when implemented) will not be tracked on these maps, or will be tracked separately.

Thats the worst thing. I talked with some euro guys who arent registered on this forum and they think the same way as i do.
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ic3y
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« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2013, 09:51:17 AM »

- Clans can still match on these maps if both clans agree.  If a clan wants to play on a non-official map and the other clan does not, it will not be played.

In my opinion, this rule is just for the tie map.
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Chef-Killer
Map Committee
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« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2013, 11:45:36 AM »

Very nice that you have started a discussion about this now.

It should be helpful for new players because of a small pool of maps and helpful to find new players staying at the game because of the good quality of those official maps.

I think it may be also a good first step for a single player modus, if there's a fix pool of same maps offline and online.

I'd really like to see different styles of maps in an official maplist, small and big ones, indoor and outdoor, at least one or two maps of each gamemode, etc.
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jitspoe
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« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2013, 12:15:09 PM »

luckmore/ic3: What do you suggest as an alternative to prevent clans from picking broken/unbalanced/unknown/unfinished maps in a match?

Proposed:
Clan A: "Our map is spawninabox.bsp"
Clan B: "No, it's not an official map."

Alternative:
Clan A: "Our map is spawninabox.bsp"
Huh?
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Chef-Killer
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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2013, 12:24:41 PM »

Delete spawninabox.bsp before people can vote for it as an official map, it brings no benefits to the game Tongue
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ic3y
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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2013, 12:35:33 PM »

luckmore/ic3: What do you suggest as an alternative to prevent clans from picking broken/unbalanced/unknown/unfinished maps in a match?

Proposed:
Clan A: "Our map is spawninabox.bsp"
Clan B: "No, it's not an official map."

Alternative:
Clan A: "Our map is spawninabox.bsp"
Huh?

No beta maps. Thats all. And a few useless maps like spawninabox.
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SuperMAn
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« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2013, 12:43:15 PM »

I dont understand why people who are not playing this game voting for a offical maplist. Some american guys who arent that active anymore or not playing this game think they know what this game needs. I dont want to offend anyone of you but it is true. In my opinion we dont need something like that and it will make more players leave the game. And thats not only my opinion.

Thats the worst thing. I talked with some euro guys who arent registered on this forum and they think the same way as i do.

The list shouldn't be forced on anyone.  If people want to host servers with other maps they should still be able to.  Official maplist/servers are required if you want any kind of standard for competitive play or statistics though.
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Nye
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« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2013, 01:19:52 PM »

As luckmore said, why do people who dont play anymore think they know what is the best for the game? Sure they have experience but maybe they should be a bit more active though, a game changes.
After a while it gets pretty boring to play always the same maps, like in bf3, where the only thing which keeps one playing are stats and assignments. In the beginning it is for sure better to start with a small mappool and easy maps but if you only have rather easy maps for matches aviable you cannot challenge yourself anymore and the matching scene will suffer from this.
Nobody would choose spawninabox as a matchmap since the spawn bug is fixed, but nice beta maps which arent in the maplist, will be forgotten soon. If you play some unknown map in a match it might be a spur to get better on it so you wont lose again. Maps can be integrated in this way.
The work of many talented mappers would be in vain. For speedserver its okay but for sure not for matches. One good thing about paintball is that you have such a big range of maps, with different game plays. I know that there will be servers with maps not from the list, but its something different to play on a pub.
It is better if there arent any changes in the matching scene, since it worked for so many years.
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jitspoe
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« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2013, 01:54:35 PM »

I'm not sure why this "people who don't play anymore" argument keeps popping up.  I believe a lot of the people who have been pushing for this are some of the most active players.

Spawninabox is obviously an extreme example, but where do you draw the line?  What about maps like "uhn" or "erhm" or "uhm"... whatever it's called.  Horribly unbalanced paths and base layouts, secret capture points, etc... no respectable competitive game would have maps like that.

I do agree that it's nice to have a large selection of maps, but I also think the line needs to be drawn somewhere.
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luckmore
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« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2013, 02:41:23 PM »

I'm not sure why this "people who don't play anymore" argument keeps popping up.  I believe a lot of the people who have been pushing for this are some of the most active players.

Spawninabox is obviously an extreme example, but where do you draw the line?  What about maps like "uhn" or "erhm" or "uhm"... whatever it's called.  Horribly unbalanced paths and base layouts, secret capture points, etc... no respectable competitive game would have maps like that.

I do agree that it's nice to have a large selection of maps, but I also think the line needs to be drawn somewhere.

noone from euros wanted to have this maplist. And the americans? noone play from them anymore, just 1 or 2 clans. i dont understand why you are saying that the most active player were pushing it. Because most of the active players arent on this forum. And your examples are bad too, noone would choose this maps nowadays. The matches always worked good with all maps because the people arent that dumb and pick some unknown maps with supersecrets in it. You just arent matching and i think you dont understand it. And again i dont want to offend any of you. I hope you understood me.
In my opinion you should work on other things to improve this game and get more player to play. /I know you are busy and dont have enough time
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Foxhound
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« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2013, 02:54:13 PM »

I don't think this map pool is a good idea for matches, unless if it is for tie as someone above mentioned. I don't think the match scene needs to be touched at all. The problem with the match scene is that no one is playing right now. Only way to fix that is to get new people to play it and stay with it and want to match. The new people aren't matching anyway; They just speed. People are just pissing and moaning about he match scene because they can't grow up and move on from this game. So they try to make ways for old players to come back. Focus should be on new players staying. I'm sure you must have stats on how many people who create an account, actually play more than one time. I bet it's very few.

*Cough HORDE MODE*
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Nye
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« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2013, 03:17:47 PM »

 I dont want to offend you but I am wondering why you are wasting your time with this "idea" . I know you are busy but if you have freetime you shouldnt work on this but on the things which are mentioned in your post what you should work in 2013. Dont try to change matching scene if it worked in the past years.
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SuperMAn
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« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2013, 03:40:21 PM »

I dont want to offend you but I am wondering why you are wasting your time with this "idea" . I know you are busy but if you have freetime you shouldnt work on this but on the things which are mentioned in your post what you should work in 2013. Dont try to change matching scene if it worked in the past years.

I think the end-goal is to create an "Official" league or something.

I don't play many other fps games, so I will use LoL as a comparison.  

Think of the current DP matches as LoL scrims (custom games).  

Once official maplist/servers are in place it would be possible to have an official match.  Results would be tracked which gives the opportunity to make a leaderboard/standings/statistics. Think of this like ranked 5s in LoL.

Nothing would stop you from matching the way you currently do.  It would just add an "Official/Certified" option.
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