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August 20, 2018, 11:27:20 AM
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Author Topic: New map: Orion (contest entry) (beta 2)  (Read 791 times)
BASEBALLDUDE
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Posts: 696

« on: June 03, 2018, 11:03:53 PM »

Orion is a mid-sized map that takes place within the crystal caverns of some faraway planet. There are two main routes with moderate flexibility within and across routes. The game mode is single-flag CTF.


Download Orion Beta 1 here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/12VtYJGXEp2tNMt-QvU1ac_RZ4GgORZRN/view?usp=sharing

Make sure you use all the files I included in the zipped file. There are custom textures from the BASEBALLDUDE texture back (I added some new ones) and a custom skybox.

Shoutouts to Rick for the colored barrels, open_war/promarijan for the crystals, jitspoe for the lanterns, Mighty Pete for the skybox, and all y'all who helped me learn how to make maps several years ago.

Feedback is appreciated.

Enjoy!


* orion2a.jpg (165.66 KB, 820x424 - viewed 86 times.)

* orion2c.jpg (122.41 KB, 820x424 - viewed 87 times.)

* orion2d.jpg (178.16 KB, 820x424 - viewed 86 times.)

* orion2e.jpg (197.87 KB, 820x424 - viewed 82 times.)

* orion2f.jpg (184.2 KB, 820x424 - viewed 83 times.)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 12:21:11 PM by BASEBALLDUDE » Logged
T3RR0R15T
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Posts: 2590

« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2018, 01:00:32 PM »

Online @ [OTB] Beta
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BASEBALLDUDE
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Posts: 696

« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2018, 10:43:01 AM »

Remember, feedback is appreciated. Some things I'm considering:
1. Making the upstream path more obvious. It's not a problem if you know the map, but some noobs take a while to realize it's there.
2. Currently there's no reason to go to the top of the peak other than exploration. Should I add a white flag there or maybe just some autocockers?
3. Aesthetics: What's everyone's opinion on the textures, lighting, etc? I'm thinking of adding some more decorations to the middle parts of the map.
4. r_speeds: I love the reflective water at each base, but unfortunately it causes the r_speeds in that area to shoot up considerably. Is there a way to get around this issue using strategically placed hint brushes, or will I have to remove the reflective water?
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JeongWa
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Posts: 465

« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2018, 06:34:00 AM »

Your map has a good looking even tho it has obvious similarities with your underwater map.

IMO the map is not really enjoyable to play on because it has barely any jumps. It might be good for players that doesnt strafe but thats it.

Your idea of adding a white flag on top of the middle "volcano" would work to add more interest in the middle part but from what i remember i couldnt even straigh up walk up there.

Good initiative tho. Hope you'll keep up on updating the map and make it better.

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BASEBALLDUDE
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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2018, 07:36:01 AM »


IMO the map is not really enjoyable to play on because it has barely any jumps. It might be good for players that doesnt strafe but thats it.
Thanks! I'll keep that in mind as I make beta 2. You might see some fun/useful jumps in a future release. Wink

Your idea of adding a white flag on top of the middle "volcano" would work to add more interest in the middle part but from what i remember i couldnt even straigh up walk up there.
Yeah, if I add a white flag I would have to make it easier to get up there. Maybe a ladder on the side of the mountain.
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MyeRs
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2018, 10:24:09 AM »

Do NOT add a white flag in the middle. Look at DP2 maps - maps with middle flags DO NOT get played. Mirror2 had a few brief moments where it was actively played - but that was due to being able to see white flag from base. Camping IS A PLAY STYLE, just like rushing is. White flag makes for awkward gameplay.

Now, honest feedback? This map only has a chance at seeing play in small pubs. It's a tournament entry, so that's fine. But the base is boring. Flag in a flat room in a corner, water just adds annoyance and no gameplay change.

Mid looks like it has POTENTIAL from first glance, but as Jeongwa mentioned - there's no real flow, jumps, etc.. I only am looking at screenshots, but I assumed that big volcano thing was something you could ramp off and get good speed - but Jeongwa mentioned you cannot. If you adjusted that to a form of jump, that could land in a "HBD" pathing into the base - maybe it takes you to a spot that drops behind flag. Move flag more to middle of room so someone cannot just sit directly on flag and never be grabbed on.

Key things: GOOD maps, whether 1 flag or 2 flag, you should not be able to stand directly on flag and have the advantage in a 1v3 to never get grabbed on. Camping is a strategy, but maps should not be made to make camping easy. Even maps like Airtime, Propaint1, the advantage of a good setup is often the 3v1.  (not always, but due to recon not being perfect and good timing, at least theres chances for grabbing flag).
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BASEBALLDUDE
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Posts: 696

« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2018, 10:58:51 AM »

Do NOT add a white flag in the middle. Look at DP2 maps - maps with middle flags DO NOT get played. Mirror2 had a few brief moments where it was actively played - but that was due to being able to see white flag from base. Camping IS A PLAY STYLE, just like rushing is. White flag makes for awkward gameplay.

Now, honest feedback? This map only has a chance at seeing play in small pubs. It's a tournament entry, so that's fine. But the base is boring. Flag in a flat room in a corner, water just adds annoyance and no gameplay change.

Mid looks like it has POTENTIAL from first glance, but as Jeongwa mentioned - there's no real flow, jumps, etc.. I only am looking at screenshots, but I assumed that big volcano thing was something you could ramp off and get good speed - but Jeongwa mentioned you cannot. If you adjusted that to a form of jump, that could land in a "HBD" pathing into the base - maybe it takes you to a spot that drops behind flag. Move flag more to middle of room so someone cannot just sit directly on flag and never be grabbed on.

Key things: GOOD maps, whether 1 flag or 2 flag, you should not be able to stand directly on flag and have the advantage in a 1v3 to never get grabbed on. Camping is a strategy, but maps should not be made to make camping easy. Even maps like Airtime, Propaint1, the advantage of a good setup is often the 3v1.  (not always, but due to recon not being perfect and good timing, at least theres chances for grabbing flag).
Hey dude, thanks for this legitimately helpful feedback! (not sarcasm). I'll definitely re-work the map's flow so that the gameplay is more strategic and skill-based.
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WarWulf
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2018, 09:32:49 PM »

Nice map can't wait to play it.
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Zenit
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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2018, 08:53:22 AM »

Maybe add some ice parts into the water and add some ramps to use. Something that makes the mid-part worth to use jump and speed wise. I also do not recommend to add a white flag. If you you don't want to move the flag away from that hard-to-grab-corner, create some fast way to grab it. Otherwise it is too easy to defend.
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BASEBALLDUDE
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Posts: 696

« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2018, 05:01:33 PM »

I've been working on beta 2 a bit, but I'll be so busy this summer that it's not going to be ready by the end of the mapping contest. So whoever's judging the contest entries, probably jitspoe, please judge Orion beta 1. Beta 2 will be released in late August and will feature a redesign focused on making it more appealing to competitive gameplay.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 08:35:13 PM by BASEBALLDUDE » Logged
jitspoe
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« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2018, 12:25:05 PM »

Just some quick first impressions:

The map feels like 2x's larger than it needs to be.  The area where the autocockers are as you exit the base feels like it should be about the center of the map.  Maybe it's just a matter of clarity.  After running around a bit more, I think the most straightforward path is also the longest because there's so much snaking when going out the autococker path.  It's good that you have the arrows pointing in the base directions, but I think it would be nice if you could make the paths more intuitive so those wouldn't even be necessary (not saying you should remove them, but the orientation of the paths should be straightforward enough that you can just immediately tell which way is toward the enemy base.  For example, maybe center the the small dry tunnels and have them face each other (and cut an opening through the mountain so there's direct line of sight).

I know you like the way the water looks, but honestly I feel it inhibits the gameplay (as well as hurting the framerate).  If you want to keep the water, you might try making it transparent instead of solid.  If it's solid, 2 passes need to be made for the water: one for the texture (which is broken up into a bunch of polygons to make the waves), and 1 for the reflection.  If you enable gl_showtris you can see the base area is split up a lot more than it needs to be because of the flame lights.  Make sure you have those set to +detail.  Not sure if that stops the BSP splitting.  You could also try adding a hint box around the light to hopefully split it in a smarter manner, but that's not always guaranteed.

As MyeRs suggested, it would be good to move the flag out of the corner and make it more difficult to defend.

Good work, though.  Thanks for participating!
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BASEBALLDUDE
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Posts: 696

« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2018, 11:53:11 AM »

Orion Beta 2 is here!

Download: https://drive.google.com/file/d/16b0o19znFv5NSbbX4GUqqAh3k0OgjINW/view?usp=sharing

Screenshots have been updated.

Changelog:
-re-made the layout for better, more competitive gameplay
-improved r_speeds (removed reflective water, better hint brush placement)

I released beta 2 sooner than I would have liked because there are still some aesthetic issues that I would like to address. But I would really like to know if I got the layout right this time before I start polishing the visuals. If you can get something going, please play-test this map and give me feedback on the jumps, flow, balance, and strategy of Orion. If feedback on gameplay is very positive, I'll start working towards the final release (after b3) starting with the aesthetics.
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jitspoe
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« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2018, 11:10:08 PM »

My main concern about the design now is that it it looks like it's almost designed to amplify the skill gap in players.  With as few people as we have playing now, I think it's important to have designs that allow players with a variety of skills to have fun together.

The most obvious and easiest path to end up in is the slowest.  There's a large section with water, then you drop down and have to jump up a bunch of ledges or climb up a ladder.  Then you have to either go all the way around the flag platform or ramp jump off of two small, specific locations.  This is very easy to defend against, since attackers will be making a lot of noise in the water and have very limited approaches to the flag.

The other path, meanwhile, has ice, so a skilled player will be able to zip in at difficult-to-hit speeds and zip out and cap likely before a new player can even reach the enemy flag.

I think the trick is to have the most straightforward path also be the fastest (walking) path so it's accessible to new players but provide alternative routes with trick jumps that make the map more interesting at the competitive level.

Suggestions:
- Align the flag platform with the ground (or ground with the flag platform) so that it's easy to approach the flag from any angle and not as easy to defend.
- Move the water path up and the ice path down so the water path is higher (or equal to) the ice path.
- Remove the ice from the main path and instead add it as a shortcut between paths (where the waterfall is) so you can quickly alternate between attack angles but not just quickly launch yourself to the flag/cap.
- Imagine playing this game for the first time and try to cater some elements of the map to that.

I put it up on the EV1 beta server, if you want to try to playtest it.
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Ranger
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Posts: 208

« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2018, 03:56:54 AM »

In my opinion players see too much far ahead of them, I consider that as not a very good thing. Its good when is playing focused also on hearing experiences and not only visual. I would also remove ices and speeds.
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